Mild curiousity...

[nightwing]

I'm curious. What am I really concidered if i believe in Jesus as being a good person, but dont believe that he's the son of God?

I should probably elaborate a little more. I'm a member of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) mainly because thats what my parents are. I do believe that Jesus once lived on Earth and was able to perform miracles, but I don't actually believe that he's the son of God, mainly due to the fact that I'm struggling in believing that there is a God. I mean, why is it that bad things happen to people that have never actually wronged someone else, if there really is a God? It just seems to me that, if God was really up there rooting for good, then he could pull a few strings to see that good people don't get murdered or raped or convicted of crimes that they didnt actually commit. I mean, couldn't he? If he can't see to it that these things don't happen, then who can?

I dunno... it just seems to me that if God existed, he wouldn't let bad people win. Don't you agree?

[purrdeta]

I do, and usually that is explained as "The Devil" coming out, but I believe that in order to preserve the power of free will, God cannot intervene directly and neither can the Devil. That is one reason Christianity must be spread because God cannot directly force you to do something. Of course, that is why he rewards you in "Heaven". Many people believe that "Heaven" is a state of being. I prefer to think of it as a "place" kinda like Earth only "World Peace"

[nightwing]

As nice of a thought as that is, I still dislike the fact that bad things happen to good people.

And I'm not talking about "Damn, I cant find my checkbook," or "The Cowboys lost, damnit." I mean serious things, things like murder, rape, destitution, and so on. If God is real and he is the one to create us on Earth, he should be able to stop things like this from happening, especially to children who have yet to live a good life.

I mean, that does make since, doesn't it?

[purrdeta]

Of course! It makes perfect sense. That is a hard matter to understand. Some Christian group would expel you for "blasphemous" thoughts. When I went to Nolan in 7th grade, we learned something about how God was all powerful but could not change things (I never unserstood that.) They equated it to you being on a tall building looking down watching a car accident about to occur. You knew that it was going to happen yet couldn't do anything about it.

[nightwing]

Refering to the tall building comment- I guess that in a way it does make sense, but I still can't understand how God is capable of creating the Earth and the Heavens, how He is capable of sending a piece of Him to Earth in the form of Jesus, and yet He is unable to stop something (such as a murder) from taking place. It just doesn't add up.

[purrdeta]

I agree with that too but these are the reasons people have come up with when they were faced with the same questions you have now.

[nightwing]

Well, thanks for the support that you've given to me. I'm not quite sure yet, but I am a little bit more on-track now. Thanks again.

[purrdeta]

No problem, to be perfectly honest, you dont HAVE to believe a certain way. I personally am a Christian but many of my beliefs would be scorned in the eyes of most churches.

[Chris Steffen]

God gave Man free will. God isn't doing the bad things, those bastard people are. But sometimes the darkness helps us appreciate the light.

I'm also a Deciples of Christ person, and I'm in a similar boat.

I believe in God.

Now, whether Jesus is the Son of God or just A son of God is no matter to me.

Jesus called us all sons and daughters... considered us as bretheren. Therefore, we're all sons and daughters of God.

Now, whether or not he was actually Immaculately Conceived or whether Pedro the Pool Man did the deed, doesn't matter.

The idea is that he died for our sins. And whether or not it worked, it was a really nice gesture.

Jesus taught us LOTS of nifty things. Like love, peace, civility.

I think we can all learn a lot from him.

Personally, I don't think that you're gonna go to hell if you don't believe in God. I think that if you do good things and try to be a good person, it doesn't matter what you believe in, you'll be fine.

So... Don't worry too much.

[nightwing]

Yes, by all means, Jesus was a good person. That is of no conflict to me either. It's just that alot of people are saying that Jesus was God's "only begotten Son" and whatnot that throws me through a loop. By all means though- Jesus was a good guy.

However, its just the dealing with "is God real" question that keeps popping up in the back of my mind, you know? Like I already said (trying not to go in circles, but it's happening anyways) if God was real, he could still kinda bypass the free will thing to make sure that the two year doesn't get killed in the car-jacking thing that gets me.

I dunno, I guess in the long run its just that I believe in Jesus as being the Savior, but I just dont believe in God as existing.

[Chris Steffen]

Here are two thoughts for you:

1. Two year old gets killed in carjacking: The kid hasn't experienced anything yet that would make it have any great desire to live... and assuming that Heaven exists, it's getting a free (and early) ticket! It gets to go to Heaven faster than any of us. Don't mourn, celebrate. Yeah, it could have done something great for the world... But instead it got a free ticket to Eternal Life. I'm not saying let's go kill babies... I'm just saying that if the Christians are right, then there's no worries there.

2. Does God exist? Better safe than sorry: It's better to believe in God and have God not exist than to NOT believe in God and get screwed because you didn't believe. On the one hand, you've got a possibility for Heaven with the chance of Dirt. On the other, you've got a possibility of Hell with the chance of Dirt. Either case, you could just end up decomposing... But I'd rather err on the side of Heaven.

In the end, I believe that there is a God. I believe that everybody goes to Heaven. I think that just because someone's earthly body (including the brain) is fucked up doesn't mean they are punished in the afterlife.

If what Jesus did worked... Which I hope it did... then we'll be fine. Jesus died for EVERYBODY's sins, not just the Christians or the Jews or the Muslims or the Catholics or the Gentiles or the Slaves or the Children or the Gays. He died for everybody. He took everybody's sins. Thus, we're all free and we're all going to Heaven.

(Assuming it worked.)

Now of course, this idea leads to the thought "Well, if we're all going to Heaven, what's the point of following rules on Earth? What's to stop me from murdering and raping people?"

The answer? Nothing. I believe that people should do good not because they're afraid of Hell, but because they WANT to do good. I also believe that if you do good things, you'll lead a much more fulfilling and happy life than if you spend your time doing bad things. Maybe you like living life on the edge, getting shot at and frying your brain on drugs... That's fine. You'll still get to Heaven. But I, personally, prefer a happy life full of smiles and friendship and love. Call me a sap, but it's true.

I guess, in the end, my entire philosophy goes back to that one simple phrase:

"Don't worry. Be happy."

[Vega]

here's the deal. don't believe anything you don't want to. I myself am a christian. My girlfriend isn't. does that bother me? of course it does. but she makes me happy and i'm not going to impose my views on her if she doesn't agree with them. it all comes down to believe what you want to believe because noone can make you believe in something you don't want to. Chris and I had this long conversation once about selective ignorance....then again we developed our own sign language actions for things like vats of dead fetus'. maybe you shouldn't listen to me or chris ever.

[nightwing]

Actually, I think that it was good advice (not so sure on the fetus part though). So thanks to you both.

[Vega]

hmmm maybe I should start listening to myself more often.