RUSSIA'S WAR IN CHECHNIA

[BoH]

Im sure some of you are aware of the fact that Russia has waged war against chechnia and some of you dont know this. I bring this up because this is a very serious matter and it is not being distributed to the public as it should be done by the news (maybe i just havent heard about it). But non the less I have brought this topic up and I am totally against and am enraged with this fact and matter with the war on chechnia. Here is a little something I dug up.

The Russian-Chechen conflict is one of the most pervasive and enduring conflicts in modern history. For most of the last decade, Russian troops waged a brutal and indiscriminate war against the Chechen people. despite the massive loss of life and the genocidal policies of successive Russian governments, the conflict in Chechnia has often been neglected and has received very little rigorous, systematic analysis, even by the human-rights and anti-war peace activists. Since September 11, Russian President Vladimir Putin justified his army's brutal policies in Chechnia using the same language that was used by President Bush. There are recent suggestions that there may be a quid pro quo between the US and Russian administrations, with Russians providing general support to American-led campaign against "international terrorism" and the Western world turning a blind eye from a brutal Russian occupation in Chechnia.

The following is a shocking piece, among many, about the Russian army's operations in Chechnia, by MAURA REYNOLDS, Times Staff Writer.

"I remember a Chechen female sniper. We just tore her apart with two armored personnel carriers, having tied her ankles with steel cables. There was a lot of blood, but the boys needed it."

"The main thing is to have them die slowly. You don't want them to die fast, because a fast death is an easy death."

"The summary executions don't just take place against suspected fighters. One 33-year-old army officer recounted how he drowned a family of five--four women and a middle-aged man--in their own well."

"You should not believe people who say Chechens are not being exterminated. In this Chechen war, it's done by everyone who can do it," he said. "There are situations when it's not possible. But when an opportunity presents itself, few people miss it."

"I would kill all the men I met during mopping-up operations. I didn't feel sorry for them one bit."

"It's much easier to kill them all. It takes less time for them to die than to grow."

"So there will be one Chechen less on the planet, so what? Who will cry for him?"

Chechnia is a muslim country, nothing is being done about it. No one is helping out chechnia. Their are fundraisers here in America taking place by only muslim assosiations and no other. No country is helping out, afraid of world war 3. That will happen no matter how much you try and avoid it. This war that has been set by Bush is only the beginning and a insight on what will happen in the future to come. State your opinions, dig up more information and put it on here. What I think about this is that is a big load of bull cock. If I was in power, I would take out russia no matter what the cost might be, those are my emotions talking. It hurts to think that everday that goes by we here in america are all mind our own buisness and living our lives. But their in Iraq and chechnia its hell. Woman are getting raped, slauthered. Kids men everyone getting slaughtered. This is inhuman people. And no one gives a damn, that is what angers me.

Hope you all have some input on this, and with that said I shall leave. May God bless you all.

Allah Hafiz

[The Rista]

Guest-BoH said:

This war that has been set by Bush is only the beginning and a insight on what will happen in the future to come.

Is this still talking about Chechnia? I understand the war, but if you're saying that Bush had a hand in it, sorry, he didn't. Maybe I took it out of context.


I really don't want to get into Chechnia right now. At camp, we had a long-ish debate over Russia/Chechnia during our UN simulation and we decided that Russia should liberate Chechnia just to give them a chance, but you have to look at things from both sides. Chechnia should have a chance, but in reality, their government would probably self-destruct

[BoH]

I beg to differ. A quote i will put up from a man, an escaped refugee from chechnia. He was interviewed and his Quote states, *note this will be a rough translation of what he has said*

" O muslim brothers around the world, remember that you are muslims to. Know that is the meaning of your religion and why it is called one Ummah and not a divided one. Come together, as we are one not seperate. In Islam it is said that if a muslim brother or sister is in need of help, it is another muslim brother or sisters mandatory right to help him out, so says Allah subhanuatalla. But do you see anyone of you helping. We ask the kufers the non believers for help because we are loosing faith in our ummah. Yet the kufers won't help either. Russia is attacking us, our faith. We are our faith, muslims are the faith of islam. It is jihad, but no one comes for battle. O muslims brothers, i beg of you, your are muslims too, do something to protect this ummah, help us, as we are your brothers and sisters and aunts and uncles here too."

I think they would rather be left as is then would be attacked by russia and be "liberated". What i dont get is why is America and Russia liberating only the muslim countries. Why dont they go after china, or N. korea or someone else. Why is it muslims countries only. This is very obvious it is racism, it is discrimination. Dont be ignorent enough to deny this fact.

[Rista]

either you have a lot of typos or you just don't understand the conflict.

[Noah]

We tried...we will try again sometime...it's in our nature...and if nothing is done soon...then I'll do what ever I can to make sure we try...

[Lazy Chris]

Seriously, props to Russia and the Chechnians.

Look, I have no particular sympathies for either side. Russian grunts tend to be mean bastards, and effective bastards, and I really would rather not want to make it onto their shit list.

Then again, Muslim militiamen are inevitably as nasty as any grunt out there. Yes, big badge of honor, strapping oneself with explosives and attacking civilians.

The entire region has been held in contest for quite some time. Nobody really enjoys being under Russian rule, not even many Russians.

Yet, at the same time, we are in need of another superpower and Russia is an decent choice. Not a great one, but a passable one. It warms my heart seeing Putin getting back into ye olde jacke bootes. We know how to deal with russkis effectively; they, unlike certain radical Middle Eastern factions can be dealt with sanely.

War has its atrocities, and I have sympathy for every person and civilian that loses their life needlessly. Yet, at the same time, one does have to understand that the Russian grunts aren't having a great time of it either.

And as for that bit about "pick on someone else, please"...

Bullshit. We, for better or (in my opinion) worse, don't attack nations with some civilization in them. Unfortuately, this rubs some people the wrong way. China has a useful station in life, although the angry little North Korea is useless for anything other than a buffer between South Korea and China.

Don't waste our time complaining about the jihad against radical Muslims... you started it and so shall the West finish it.

Shalom ( or assamalu alaikum, if you prefer).

-Chris

[Rista]

"I remember a Chechen female sniper. We just tore her apart with two armored personnel carriers, having tied her ankles with steel cables. There was a lot of blood, but the boys needed it."

"The main thing is to have them die slowly. You don't want them to die fast, because a fast death is an easy death."

"The summary executions don't just take place against suspected fighters. One 33-year-old army officer recounted how he drowned a family of five--four women and a middle-aged man--in their own well."

"You should not believe people who say Chechens are not being exterminated. In this Chechen war, it's done by everyone who can do it," he said. "There are situations when it's not possible. But when an opportunity presents itself, few people miss it."

"I would kill all the men I met during mopping-up operations. I didn't feel sorry for them one bit."

"It's much easier to kill them all. It takes less time for them to die than to grow."

"So there will be one Chechen less on the planet, so what? Who will cry for him?"

A lot of these could also be said by US soldiers in Iraq.

[Lazy Chris]

Horseshit, Rista.

Perhaps 7, as American grunts are realists about the guy on the other end of the barrel.

Our boys would never do the rest of those things. American troops do not kill women and children, they do not mutilate people with APC's, and they do not make deaths slow.

There are two major fallacies for such behavior:

A. Usually only losing armies do mutiliation or scorched earth policies. Our troops win, and win fast, so they either kill quickly (headshot) or take prisoners (which they actually problems with in Iraq... if they had just shot the defectors it would've been easier, but they didn't do so).

B. The grunts know that they are there to build good will, and hence they get along pretty well with the indigs, excepting the terrorists. They have no reason to hurt the indigs, so they don't. This isn't Vietnam, there is no reason to burn villages that might be sheltering the VC and NVA.

There are, in any war, atrocities. But, Rista, you overstep the bounds of good taste and even common fucking sense when you attribute deeds to our grunts that there is absolutely no backing for. Knock it off, and leave military matters to those who know something about them.

-Chris

[Bishounen]

Hmm, I've changed my mind a lot in politics ever since I've actually started reading and better grasping hegemony.

United States hegemony is yummy. I love it. Just b/c I've changed my foregin policy substantially since last I've posted in politics doesn't mean I now like Bush, I think the guy is terrible for our soft power, which is what we really need in order to maintain longterm hegemonic dominace.

Anyways, getting to the point. I mean, ok, Chechnya does have a right to secede if they wish to, but not without a fucking fight! I mean, c'mon, Faruq, Russia wants to keep that region because it is the lifeline to Caspian oil, which Russia needs so much. Your selfish wishes for Muslism self-determination is undercut by the needs of millions upon millions of Russians and other Eastern nations that rely on their oil. Chechnyan independence might be fine and dandy for the Muslims there, but it damages much more people in the longrun. And... you say the Russians are terrible to the Chechnyans, well, guess what? The Chechnyans started it! If they accepted Russian rule, then there would be no need for Russia to place such hard rule on them.

So yea, I think it would be better if Russia kept Chechnya for all that oil, but really I am not choosing one side over another, considering it won't affect me all that much.

Besides, your "Muslim alliance" against the West is crumbling, the Middle East is accepting the West, terrorist activity is on the decline and democratic revolutions are very likely to occur in that region leading to modernization (thank god... or praise allah.. whichever you wish).

[Rista]

Could, babe. No matter what nation or religion, there are heartless fucks out there. There are people out there- yes, even some american boys- who feel that killing the Iraqis or other opponents is a social justice and get a kick out of it. I'm not trying to brand every american soldier or bad-mouth what they're doing. I think it's courageous, I appreciate it and I support them. I'm just saying that those quotes could come from any army, not just Russia's.

[Bishounen]

I have to agree with Rista here. There are scumbags and sadists in every culture. The US military usually is better about this, but it does happen.

[Lazy Chris]

Yeah... but oftentimes it seems here I hear more about the assorted ebils of the United States than about the good things that they do.

[Rista]

Yea. That's the same here. It seems the people that are the most heard are the ones that are bashing our troops. Which sucks. I wouldn't want to fight for a country when the people that are being heard are the ones who aren't supporting me. It pisses me off that people do that. I don't give a shit who you are, even if you don't support the war, you support the troops that are out their fighting. Gah. Stupid people like that shouldn't be allowed to breed.

[Vega]

To be fair, there is no way any of our troops could do anything like what was said previously. I'm sure there are sadists who would want to try, but all platoons and any smaller detatchment are required to take a civilian reporter with them to record all actions and to make sure that they are in compliance with the rules and regulations set forth by the geneva convention which we have adopted into our law. did you know that our troops aren't even allowed to shoot someone more than once? If the first bullet doesn't do the trick, you'd better hope that they are incapacitated so that you might take them prisoner. I don't think it's fair that our troops have to play with a set of rules being ignored by the extremists of the other side. It's like this: I could kick your ass, but if I'm not allowed to use my hands or feet and you get to bring a knife-i'm not liking my chances. give our troops more credit. they do things by the book and the ones who don't are instantly incarcerated. I say this and note that you hear about anything wrong our troops do in Iraq or overseas in general.

[Chris Steffen]

Wait...

The Chechnians are Muslims...

And they've got female snipers?

Holy shit!

Does this mean that the Muslims in Chechnia believe women can do something for themselves?

Does this mean they're NOT all sexist?

Does this mean that Chechnian women have the same standing as Chechnian men?

WOW!!!! NEAT!!!

...


I'm going to Hell for this post. And I want you all to know, I'm not really racist at all. I'm not anti-muslim. I'm just sick and tired of there being a CONSTANT STRUGGLE between the Muslims and Everyone Else.

Lighten up! Jeez!

Why can't the world just take a Chill Pill?

[Vega]

because it always comes down to some muslims somewhere doing something to piss everyone off..... Israel cough cough

[Chris Steffen]

/me sighs...

[Vega]

what i'm not particularly against them...it's just that some muslims piss me off. like all of the palestinians and people who start shit with America